2000 VP is too much

Discussion in 'Archive' started by kamarah, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. kamarah

    kamarah Spearman

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    Aside from the mechanic being poorly thought out to begin with (See thread: New endgame: Victory Points), the number of points required for a VP win is set too high.

    Eketorp World is basically done, and it's shown that 2000 VP is too high of a victory requirement. There are only 8500 (3500 player owned), villages in the entire Eketorp world. If you had a 40 member tribe, that would mean each player would have to have a minimum of 50 VP villages (read: church) per member. Regardless of the number of members, the tribe has to own 24% of the world's villages only as VP (church) villages, or 57% of the player owned villages. It's unfun. It doesn't leave any barbarians for farming (a key game mechanic), nor troops for war, and it's very grindy/boring to have build all those extra nobles after the wars are all done, especially when there are no barbarians to farm. It also encourages overly large tribes to get the VP required. A flat victory condition set for all worlds doesn't make sense at all.

    It's not easy to verify how many provinces there actually are, but there is a minimum number of players a tribe MUST have, based on the number of provinces that are populated. Currently the top player in Eketorp has 50 vp, and the second has 45, and the tribe is still 800 points short of winning. It's difficult, if not impossible, for smaller, tight knit tribes to win a VP world at a 2000 point threshold.

    Additionally, consider if the players happen to take every single village in the world, and they happen to keep 5 villages per province each (a very reasonable number), that would mean only 20% of the villages are VP village, and now it becomes impossible for them to win without swapping villages. That is incredibly upsetting to people to give away villages that they worked hard on, just to meet an arbitrary victory condition. The winning tribe in Eketorp is discussing if that's necessary.

    The reality of it is that the winning tribe in Eketorp is approaching a domination-style victory, and now we are going to have to spend the next few weeks farming the rest of the VP unless the mods declare victory without them. That is a pretty good way to make sure I don't start another world. Victory has become very unsatisfying.

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    I do have a suggestion, other than just lowering the victory condition for the current worlds.

    I think the VP mechanic could work, as it stands, if the VP threshold was set much lower, and a Domination style victory (at a lower threshold as well, say 51% of player owned villages) was still considered an option.

    Consider that the maximum membership of a tribe is (I think) 160 members. If each member got 6 VP, that'd be 960 points. Victory is not easy to accomplish easily by pure recruiting, as in Eketorp 6 VP puts you at rank 83. If you rush for it you could over extend yourself and lose a war, but not so high that you couldn't sneak it in while other people are warring. It could create somewhat of a desperate struggle between methodical growth and rapid expansion by forcing you to deal with a tribe who is getting too close to the VP threshold.

    Maybe just set the VP threshold based on the number of player owned villages, say 25%-30%, and put a floor on it based on the tribe limit.

    Best of all, to do this would take zero coding by the game staff, since the victory conditions are verified manually anyway (I think?).
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
  2. cokky

    cokky Berserker

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    the max tribe size is 200. So that is only 10 Vp per member to finish a world. The sucky part is that MRT is the only way to win really in VP worlds but that is why we have 2 different types VP is for more casual where 2-3 MRT can slowly figure out who is the best. it should require far less demanding effort than a domination world will.
     
  3. kamarah

    kamarah Spearman

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    It seems unlikely that most tribes will max out. My tribe on E is is 116 players. That's just over 17 VP required per player, which is the current rank 15 in that world. I get that it's to make the game more casual, but I don't think even the most casual player is looking to munch barbs across the world well after all the other tribes are destroyed.
     
  4. slaughter1234

    slaughter1234 Archer

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    So split your tribe in half, eat barbs for a month then go at it. You didn't have to recruit most of the world. That's the problem. Tribes should not go over 60 members. You guys basically stalled out your own world by adding most of the players, 2k VP is not enough in my opinion. US 28 was won with 2.5k VP. We still had 900ish red villages we could have eaten.
     
  5. kamarah

    kamarah Spearman

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    I don't see how that helps at all. The fewer players you have, the harder it is to get the VP required.
     
  6. slaughter1234

    slaughter1234 Archer

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    It's not hard to get VIP at all. Go look through the original thread that was created to discuss VP world arrival. People easily identified the problems with Vp worlds, listing many different ways on why VP worlds are too easy.
     
  7. kamarah

    kamarah Spearman

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    It's not about whether it's easy or hard. It's just BORING to farm VP after you've defeated all of your enemies.
     
  8. slaughter1234

    slaughter1234 Archer

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    Then stop recruiting everyone...
     
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  9. EIJEFE

    EIJEFE Paladin

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    Its not like recruiting only 40 members makes VP world any less boring
     
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  10. battlegod

    battlegod Axeman

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    VP worlds got a bad rap to begin with and it made it to where players are not joining or staying if they do. so the worlds seem to be smaller. this makes it a little harder to get those VP. players in a tribe need to understamd that 1-2 players in province isnt going to work. you need at least 3-4 players in a province. In a VP world, province domination by a single player does the tribe no good. if i had a player like that in a VP world he would be giving vills up to a few players or he would give them all up and would be kicked from the tribe after being rimmed
     
  11. crushemtodust

    crushemtodust Swordsman

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    we are going for our vp win with no more than 40 members . while it is a major disadvantage I think we can actually pull this off . we are less than 15 vp behind the mrt led by battlegod at this point and he has 140 players
     
  12. battlegod

    battlegod Axeman

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    crushem, when a tribe jumps out of no where and in three days with less than 40 players is at a level 29 and all there vills suddenly have an average of 2800pts with nukes popping up dialy from all over. then your money should win the world. i had 4-5 players that got tired of what we call coiner tribes popping up in a weeks time so they donated a lot of crowns to get our tribe level up quick. I didnt ask them to, they did it bc they wanted to. I am not saying you do not have good players in OSK but i wonder how good they would be without all that crowning of troops and crowning up there vills.
     
  13. crushemtodust

    crushemtodust Swordsman

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    you realize we are talking about Johnny Blood , Wolf of Asgard, Diesel, and others who have won multiple worlds . and as far as money goes we have the top players but you literally have 150 to our 40 . crowning doesn't help that much . again MRT play is what sucks . you all want a fair playing field when it comes to crowning but not player limit . Say what I will about American servers but the only one leading properly here is that cokky fella and I am certainly hoping to match up with him on a future world .
    I mean seriously 150 players though thats sad . oh and we split from INO because they went over 50 . We told them not to
     
  14. Sachias

    Sachias Spearman

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    What? alot of our guys dont even crown what are you going on about every other tribe here is just getting on because we have decent players that communicate well?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2018
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  15. crushemtodust

    crushemtodust Swordsman

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    shh you can't take away his pre-made
    excuse for losing while outnumbering the opposition 4 to 1
     
  16. battlegod

    battlegod Axeman

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    i have never said you do not communicate and your not good players. And you will never here me say it. but i do have eyes and ears in almost every tribe in this world. from what i am told you communicate very well and your ops are outstanding. My tribe are a mix of noobs and vets we teach the noobs as we go...other tribes want to join us and we have the spots so we select who we want. My problem is with other tribes actually that jump on the OSK band wagon as allies and NAPs in hopes of getting protection from you. if they cant stand on there own then they arent worth having as allies. I wish you all luck and cant say hope you win bc i hope we win. we will find out when its over i guess
     

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