What is harassment/mass mailing

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Panterraa

Mounted Archer
so it seem that the harassment and mass mailing rules has change. So I feel like the mods own a updated for these rules. So can you please post what each one is considered? If your going to change rules only fair that the players know.
 

CaptC

Tribal Wars 2 Team
TLDR: No rules have changed. Harassment is, and always will be, something we investigate seriously, and act upon promptly. We are quite professional in how we do so.

Full Detail:

I will speak to harassment policy here, only. Specifics of any particular case will not be discussed - such discussions infringe upon player privacy, and almost never have any positive result. Any response regarding specific cases will be removed. If you feel the need to discuss a particular case, send us a ticket for in-game issues, or send me a pm for in-forum issues,
  • Support investigates every case of reported harassment.
  • The report itself will always remain anonymous.
  • Support applies what is commonly known as a 'reasonable person' analysis. "Given the evidence presented, would a reasonable person conclude that the alleged harasser did in fact, harass the alleged victim?"
  • Support only looks at the evidence supplied to determine if harassment actually occurred. We look for repeat patterns and at level of insult. You can harass someone with a single abusive message, and you can also harass with a pattern of repetitive but low levels of insult.
  • It is quite possible that support will determine that no harassment has occurred, for a variety of reasons. In those cases, we will simply do nothing while maintaining the anonymity of the report.
  • If we determine that harassment actually did occur, we then look at past history to determine the severity of the sanction to be applied.
  • First time offenses rarely get anything more than a simple warning, with no penalties attached. The intent is to notify someone who is merely making a mistake, that they should stop making that mistake, without applying sanctions that can materially affect the game.
  • Subsequent offenses get progressively stiffer penalties. At that point in time, we have to assume the harasser either has malicious intent, or needs to have it proven to them that we are serious.
  • Players have the right to dispute the finding of harassment. The proper way to do that is to respond to the ticket which applied the warning or sanction. Bringing such matters into the public forum is NOT appropriate, and all such posts will be removed.
  • If disputed, we will review the evidence and re-examine our conclusions and level of sanctions, and adjust accordingly.
Aside from policy, I am going to note a few more general observations:
  • All players have a right to enjoy the game. Even players you don't like. This is also true of the forums.
  • There is a line to be drawn between friendly teasing and harassment. Friendly trash talk stops being friendly when the other player is upset by it. If you detect that the other player is getting upset, you should stop before you cross the line into harassment. If you INTEND to make the other player upset, you have already crossed that line. (This is something most five year olds understand. We expect our players to figure it out, as well.)
  • Alleged victims alone decide if they need to report harassment. It is always legitimate for them to do so. After all, harassers never self-report.
  • Alleged victims do not have to say anything to their harasser. Silence is NOT equivalent to "consent to be harassed".
  • Engaging in conversations in so-called Salty forums is generally at the player's own risk. But the forum rules are merely relaxed, not eliminated. Players can be salty and support will be generally tolerant - but players cannot be abusive, or discuss specific tickets within such forums.
In conclusion, we understand how harassment works, and how to deal with it. We have very experienced in-game and in-forum moderators here. They have seen it all, and have excellent understanding of how the culture in the game and forum operates. When support determines that harassment has occurred, it is for good reason, with clear evidence. This is not "the new guy changing things". I am merely continuing the already existing, common-sense, fair and practical ways to deal with these matters. Any support organization, anywhere, will use similar guidelines.
 

El Salesman

Swordsman
So if I were to, say, talk crap about people and to people on the forum, literally for years; and engaged in the same activity in mails.... I could then wait for someone to mail me, and not say anything in response and get them a warning or worse?
 

Panterraa

Mounted Archer
so can you give a few example of what would count as harassment? you said harassment a lot but not fully what would count as harassment. i think this is very important to know and a few example would help the TW2 family out a bit
 

Panterraa

Mounted Archer
  • There is a line to be drawn between friendly teasing and harassment. Friendly trash talk stops being friendly when the other player is upset by it. If you detect that the other player is getting upset, you should stop before you cross the line into harassment. If you INTEND to make the other player upset, you have already crossed that line. (This is something most five year olds understand. We expect our players to figure it out, as well.)
how do you know if the other player is upset if they are trashing talking at the same time? a lot of us in this game message players all the time about taking their villages and to get them off balance when your engage in a fight. none of us know how sensitive a so call player could be on the other end as well. I mean most players get upset when you take their villages and we all intend to do that.
 

CaptC

Tribal Wars 2 Team
The primary definition of harassment is defined by the fact that the alleged victim objects to it. But that is not sufficient for support to act. As stated above, support applies what is commonly known as a 'reasonable person' analysis. "Given the evidence presented, would a reasonable person conclude that the alleged harasser did in fact, harass the alleged victim?"
 

CaptC

Tribal Wars 2 Team
We are crossposting, panterraa... LOL.

To your question about hard feelings because of game actions or inter-tribal politics, for example: Differences of opinion are fine, and understandable in a conflict game. That is not, in and of itself, harassment. However, repeatedly sending angry messages and failing to cool down about intergame interactions, may become harassment.
 

Captain Kumquat

Swordsman
If I sent a message that said “Hey buddy, what happened? What a difference a week makes. LOL”

Would that be considered harassment? All hypothetical of course.
 

CaptC

Tribal Wars 2 Team
If that was the only message, I think a reasonable person would not go there. But context is everything. If the messages before and after that were, let's just say, overtly insulting limericks, for example... it might be looked at differently. LOL
 

Captain Kumquat

Swordsman
So when someone reports another player for harassment, what do you require them to provide? For example, would you ask for a screenshot of the conversation or do you take them at their word?

Again, all hypothetical of course.
 

Captain Kumquat

Swordsman
If that was the only message, I think a reasonable person would not go there. But context is everything. If the messages before and after that were, let's just say, overtly insulting limericks, for example... it might be looked at differently. LOL
To follow up on this, let’s say the person reporting the claim was not a reasonable person and DID go there for one message. Would the person reporting the claim then be punished for creating a false claim or is there such a thing as a false claim?

All hypothetical of course.
 

El Salesman

Swordsman
I have no idea how you came to such a conclusion.
Hypothetically speaking, if a person were to report harassment, I would hope you would look into their history before assuming foul play. To think of a tangible hypothetical situation, I'll use my friend onerous bubble(slaughter) as an example. If he reported harrassment, you could look back at years of his posts. He like myself likes to troll people and we both maybe go a bit far at times. One would expect to not get the benefit of the doubt when reporting harrassment with years of trolling players yes? But you dont actually take any of that into account, and so, I would think that I could therefore then troll people and as long as they dont report me, I can report them. So long as the particular line of communication was free from previous insults by my person, at the time.
 

Panterraa

Mounted Archer
Hypothetically speaking, if a person were to report harassment, I would hope you would look into their history before assuming foul play. To think of a tangible hypothetical situation, I'll use my friend onerous bubble(slaughter) as an example. If he reported harrassment, you could look back at years of his posts. He like myself likes to troll people and we both maybe go a bit far at times. One would expect to not get the benefit of the doubt when reporting harrassment with years of trolling players yes? But you dont actually take any of that into account, and so, I would think that I could therefore then troll people and as long as they dont report me, I can report them. So long as the particular line of communication was free from previous insults by my person, at the time.
Jsut get on with it and ban Salesman. He wont be missed
EIJEFE go troll elsewhere please. Im asking serious question here, im also curious about what the saleman just asked as well.
 

Thicc Lad

Axeman
Hey mods lemme answer for panterraa he was dropkicked as a kid so its little hard for him to process new info.

Pant, harassment is like what you did to those barbs on F world. You kept picking on them over and over and over and over. Many barbs quit cuz of you. Now, trash talk would be like Captain K saying "Its part of the master plan" when losing a villa or "you're soo predictable" after losing his stack.
Hope that helped.
 

Panterraa

Mounted Archer
Hey mods lemme answer for panterraa he was dropkicked as a kid so its little hard for him to process new info.

Pant, harassment is like what you did to those barbs on F world. You kept picking on them over and over and over and over. Many barbs quit cuz of you. Now, trash talk would be like Captain K saying "Its part of the master plan" when losing a villa or "you're soo predictable" after losing his stack.
Hope that helped.
Goldend but let be seriousness
 
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