Automated Farming Could Save This Game

Howardrawr

Spearman
You know how you really solve the farming issues? I have stated it before I believe, but the main issue with farming barbs is the barbs are empty. Why is it an army can walk into a "barbarian" village who, I would assume, are savage or uncivilized, hence the name barbarian, and take their resources without any resistance? Biggest and most significant change to the game EVER....barbs produce troops slowly. Barbs will also focus farm and warehouse first as these are what determine the army and resource cap of the barbs.

So this leaves a few different strategies for farming and you can design more depth to how the barbarian villages build or focus certain buildings. First, you can just cat barb farms to lessen how much they hold troops wise. This takes time and effort to create a farm able barb and since the barb will still grow you will have to do this again periodically. Second strategy is brute forcing barbs and overwhelming them to minimize losses. This is great for players who dont want to farm as much but may want a lot of resources all at once. If a barb is not cleared by a player the troops and resources will accumulate making the attack worth the losses you may have. Remember that barbs only fight at 50% moral.

I am not sure how well this would scale into the late game though. Maybe barbs will focus farm/warehouse first so mid to late game you can raid barbs for up to 400k of each resource. Of course you have to hit it multiple times. This means having 5-10 nukes can rake in a couple of million resources at once and you can throw it all into the academy or you actually have a use now for maxing out the market to send to other villages.

I really think this is a game changer!
 

Howardrawr

Spearman
Also to add to that there should always be a base troop count that the barb cannot fall under. You can call this militia or just set it to be based off current farm lvl like the old militia used to work. So a low point barb will always have 50sp 50sw 50ar and high pt 1k/1k/1k everytime you attack the village or it will jump up to that level after 30 minutes or some similar duration of time. This will prevent players from overlap farming for free and never allowing the barbs' troops to grow. Players will be required to send the appropriate sized farming raids most of the time unless they cleared recently. This also adds more to do in the early game since you will need to scout barbs and you can tell when one is cleared and take advantage if it was done by someone else. So you still spend the same amount of time "farming" barbs but they act a little more like players.
 

Howardrawr

Spearman
to add $$$ for inno they can change the way the Master of Loots work and/or leave them the way they are. Maybe add farm/warehouse to the potential upgraded buildings. The increased resources gained may be worth alone if the barbs produce troops fast enough to where attacking constantly is not worth the troop losses. With this idea though you would likely want to increase the chance of upgrade since you are adding more buildings and/or in general ppl will be attacking the barbs less.

Or add some other boost for barbs relating to this. :)
 

Ogre-Magi

Spearman
Lol wrong. That 10 player tribe with 5M looted has 2-3x more villages now due to noble coins minted, while the tribe with 1M is still trying to get academies. The more you farm, the more coins you can mint and villages you can eat. Farming is a massive part of this game.
Im literally discussing the point where farming has nothing to do with skills, so yes, a 10 player 1mil can beat 10 player 5mil.
If the 5mil one sends nukes un organized and the 1mil stacks due to good teamwork, the 1mil kills a nuke and is at the advantage.
Rushing for as many villages as possible is easier with alot of farming, yes. A good player will see this, and just cat him down. Can't make units if all your resources are pooled into coins right?

^^ What edge exactly do I get against coiners if they farm equally to me? They have more troops, better farming (because of RP), no waiting time. While its true it would increase teamwork, it would also significantly increase the power of coining.
If people crown, they will usually be online alot more, since they are paying for the game and want it to be worth it. How will it increase the power of crowning? Only people that throw hundreds of dollars towards the game will get an advantage, the ''casual'' crowner will most of the time be on more then the person just playing the game and not paying, you dont want to spend 50 dollars on a game and then not farm and let people noble you right?

It won't change anything about crowning at all, it will increase everyone's farming. You will be able to farm as much as me. People crowning will not change at all, with or without the farm scripts they will crown.
You won't get an edge against crowners, and you never will.
 

EIJEFE

Paladin
Let me ask you something Ogre-Magi. Lets say you start a world in a province with a coiner (he spends a couple of bucks each week) and you 0, how exactly are you going to beat him?
 

Ogre-Magi

Spearman
Let me ask you something Ogre-Magi. Lets say you start a world in a province with a coiner (he spends a couple of bucks each week) and you 0, how exactly are you going to beat him?
We're discussing a farm script for every player, not crowning. Crowning will be here, you can be against it all you want, but the people crowning are the people actually keeping TW2 alive. Do you think innogames would keep tw2 if it made no money for them? Highly, highly doubt it..
 
Let's not forget that the botters literally killed the barbs around them. On US37 the barbs to the north (Far away from the banned botters) are 1200-1800 points. The barbs near the old botter locations are 300-600 points. They're only that high due to the ban that was issued. If automated farming becomes a thing, Barb growth needs to be increased.
 

EIJEFE

Paladin
We're discussing a farm script for every player, not crowning. Crowning will be here, you can be against it all you want, but the people crowning are the people actually keeping TW2 alive. Do you think innogames would keep tw2 if it made no money for them? Highly, highly doubt it..
its not hard to understand. to deal with a croiners you need to farm more than him. So by givig them the ability to farm you are also giving away the ability for non coiners to out farm them
 

Sledge

Spearman
Anyone trying to grow a village in an area where there is heavy bot use, knows that it is difficult because the barbs don't grow and they are constantly empty.
Players always complain that their growth in these areas is stunted. We must therefore assume that if everyone can legally use bots and they take little effort then we will all be farming 24/7. So everyone will suffer from poor village growth and troops would become harder to build because resources are limited.
Those with Crowns would be able to buy boosts and re rolls in the resource depot. Those who do not want to spend Crowns will just have to put up with it. No amount of hard work farming will make that much difference cos all the barbs are empty.
Illegal bots would still be in the game because how would the mods find them and they can do more so if you have them it will give you an edge. Everyone always wants to gain an advantage over other players so there will always be players searching for a better bot. If the programmers decide to charge for them then players with the ability to pay would still have the advantage. Barbs give free resources bots will remove the free resource.
Howardrar mentioned gradually growing militia in barbs but wont they kill the troops from those players who have just started the world. I started a world late to help out a friend. Barbs are now around 1k points. I would have real difficulty if i lost my initial 30 spears or really any troops in the first week. It is ok talking about catting the village or killing the militia but if you do not yet have an army that would be hard. Link all this with bot use and it all becomes messy.
I agree that something needs to be done but apart from the lack of an end game i dont think we need major change to the main concept. We just need to enforce a rule that says no bot use.
 

Ogre-Magi

Spearman
its not hard to understand. to deal with a croiners you need to farm more than him. So by givig them the ability to farm you are also giving away the ability for non coiners to out farm them
As I said earlier, a person that heavily crowns will most likely take the game serious and farm alot anyway.
 

CaptC

Berserker
not sure theree is a correlation between those two. They simply can afford it
It depends upon the game... but in general I agree there is no real correlation. Many players in many games use premium currencies instead of effort.

In every game I have played, though... the REALLY serious players do both: They use money AND effort. Free players have to be realistic about that. They can get past "no effort spenders" by spending time and utilizing skill to be as efficient as possible... but they are unlikely to be the top player in whatever the game is, because there will almost certainly be someone sufficiently skilled with a bigger wallet.
 

Danjotpa

Guest
First, I am just passing along a valid suggestion. But me passing along a suggestion doesn't mean it will get adopted.
Second, it is a question of cost. If it is cheap enough, everyone can afford it, but Inno may get a little more revenue.
Third, the best freemium games allow such technologies to be earned by free players as well. Maybe you do something to earn the boost for a week?

If it is something they want to pursue, I would let the developers figure out how to make it a reasonable feature that doesn't completely overbalance the game.
Allowing all players the RIGHT to the same things that cheaters have been using to auto farm and get the jump on everyone else is NOT an overbalance. Its just the kind of balance the game needs to retain players and not turn everyone off. In this regard I agree with CC, but its clear from reading the forums and seeing the defense of farm scripts by some very vocal people, I would imagine those are the people the mods should be looking at if they intend to keep the farm bot ban in effect. Now if the rest of us get access to those tools and get a more fair shake at the game, I dont have a problem with that. But thinking that letting people use auto farm bots “overbalances” the game is a stretch of words. Thats admitting that you want there to be an unfair balance because it$ what make$ Inno Game$ profitable.
 

EIJEFE

Paladin
We are not defending the use of scripts. We are saying giving scripts to everyone isnt the solution and they should have an harder crack down on scripting.
 

Danjotpa

Guest
We are not defending the use of scripts. We are saying giving scripts to everyone isnt the solution and they should have an harder crack down on scripting.
I understand what you are saying, you were not one of the ones I noticed defending the use of them :) And its not this thread I am talking about only, this is a topic of discussion on many threads right now - and there are some people who say using farm bot scripts is perfectly ok and should be allowed. I think there should be a harder crackdown on scripting as well (hell, Ive said it for years, and the people who insisted that they never used any such cheat tools are now openly admitting that they have used them in the past to beat tribes that did not use them), OR if the idea of implementing an auto farming process in the game sanctioned officially by Inno Games (for the selfish purposes of lining Inno’s pockets, of course) becomes a reality, it should be reasonably priced if its monetized to be accessible to everyone.
 

hi126136

Spearman
I agree with this concept
TW2 was designed to be a strategy game, not a game to see who has the most free time to farm. It should be about who can utilize their resources best, not who can farm the most and spend the most time. Farming is an extremely draining and boring process tbh. It doesn't add value to Inno (they might actually have to pay more bandwith costs.. even though that's probably pretty low), doesn't add value to the player (it's free time being spent), and restricts competitive play to those who have a large amount of time.
I don't think that how much time a person has should differentiate the skill level of players. It's only cheating when one has an unfair advantage over another. The bots would be made by Inno (shouldn't be hard, just getting the nearest X amount of villages, or maybe custom input by players), so there should be no competition as to "who makes the best bot". It will also be inbuilt, and just because farming is now inbuilt doesn't mean the rest of the scripts should be allowed (and they definitely shouldn't).
Addressing Sledge's point, as far as barbarian growth goes, maybe inno can instead make the barbarian villages growing every X amount of time, instead of based on leftover resources. In fair games, time shouldn't be the restricting factor on how far a player can go, since real life is always more important. This can no doubt generate more revenue for Inno, and maybe lead to better and further updates.As far as illegal scripting goes, these definitely should be cracked down.
In a previous point by EIJ, it should be noted that heavy crowners usually also farm a lot, since they care a lot about the game.. well enough to crown for a several month playthrough. Also, it's not giving scripts to everybody since scripts will be inbuilt. There will be no need to get external scripts since internal farming scripts maintained by Inno will be most likely far superior

On a separate note, farming and crowning are a lot alike tbh. They have different connotations, since one seems to be "effort" while the other seems to be "being rich". However, it's essentially paying an opportunity cost. Some people's wallet come cheaper than their time, while others have far more cheaper time. In fact.. you can argue that crowning requires "making an effort" as well, since it requires time spent on a job..Time can be converted to money and vice versa..

Time shouldn't be a restrictive factor for these strategy games. It shouldn't be about who can afford to spend the most time in this game, since we all have real lives that needs to be taken care of. This definitely does not harm Inno, since it allows players who have less time to be more relevant in the game (wider playerbase), while also raking in some free revenue for them.

Although if the playing field was to be levelled, crowning should be more restricted, but I doubt that will be enacted anytime soon, but at least this can be made fair.
 
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Ogre-Magi

Spearman
I agree with this concept
TW2 was designed to be a strategy game, not a game to see who has the most free time to farm. It should be about who can utilize their resources best, not who can farm the most and spend the most time. Farming is an extremely draining and boring process tbh. It doesn't add value to Inno (they might actually have to pay more bandwith costs.. even though that's probably pretty low), doesn't add value to the player (it's free time being spent), and restricts competitive play to those who have a large amount of time.
I don't think that how much time a person has should differentiate the skill level of players. It's only cheating when one has an unfair advantage over another. The bots would be made by Inno (shouldn't be hard, just getting the nearest X amount of villages, or maybe custom input by players), so there should be no competition as to "who makes the best bot". It will also be inbuilt, and just because farming is now inbuilt doesn't mean the rest of the scripts should be allowed (and they definitely shouldn't).
Addressing Sledge's point, as far as barbarian growth goes, maybe inno can instead make the barbarian villages growing every X amount of time, instead of based on leftover resources. In fair games, time shouldn't be the restricting factor on how far a player can go, since real life is always more important. This can no doubt generate more revenue for Inno, and maybe lead to better and further updates.As far as illegal scripting goes, these definitely should be cracked down.
In a previous point by EIJ, it should be noted that heavy crowners usually also farm a lot, since they care a lot about the game.. well enough to crown for a several month playthrough. Also, it's not giving scripts to everybody since scripts will be inbuilt. There will be no need to get external scripts since internal farming scripts maintained by Inno will be most likely far superior

On a separate note, farming and crowning are a lot alike tbh. They have different connotations, since one seems to be "effort" while the other seems to be "being rich". However, it's essentially paying an opportunity cost. Some people's wallet come cheaper than their time, while others have far more cheaper time. In fact.. you can argue that crowning requires "making an effort" as well, since it requires time spent on a job..Time can be converted to money and vice versa..

Time shouldn't be a restrictive factor for these strategy games. It shouldn't be about who can afford to spend the most time in this game, since we all have real lives that needs to be taken care of. This definitely does not harm Inno, since it allows players who have less time to be more relevant in the game (wider playerbase), while also raking in some free revenue for them.

Although if the playing field was to be levelled, crowning should be more restricted, but I doubt that will be enacted anytime soon, but at least this can be made fair.
I agree, and this way innogames might actually be able to keep more new players, playing.
Right now basicly the one that farms the most wins their province. New people dont farm, they are new, they dont know why you should farm 24/7, A.K.A: New player gets wiped after 5 days for having nothing. With script, people are equal, people with alot of time can invest it in getting better in the game instead of farming.
It is a pain in the a** to farm, set up an OP, time attacks to land at the same time, defend etc. New players will be discouraged if they just get wiped because they do not see the benefits of farming, players with not alot of time because they are in college, work a fulltime job whatever, will not keep playing a game if they already feel they are behind due to farming alone.

Crowning won't ever get changed, well not to make it more equal anyway. It is the reason Tribalwars 2 is even up still.

I honestly do not know how TW2 does not allow any scripts at all, despite TW1 allowing it. TW2 even has relocate which TW1 in my days didn't have, you could spend 1 hour a day on TW1 and still be relevant, you can not try that on this game.

Right now the game is about time available, there are barely any skills involved.
If player A is the best player in the world, but has 3 hours less a day then player B, who is number 50 in the world, player B will win due to the 3 hours more a day.
 

hi126136

Spearman
Hm I would think that the scripts will be limited to farming only
imo the tw1 scripts are far too broad and it contains sniping, nobling, etc
this causes problems.. for examples, trains can be easily sniped at ms precision, which imo shouldn't be happening..
however, farming is actually time consuming (unlike other actions, which takes a couple minutes at best), which makes it a true pain

The scripts should never be allowed from an external source, but rather an in-built, Innogames made one..
 
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El Salesman

Swordsman
Fixing farming cant include changes to the game because inno wont change it. Want it with all your heart it ain't gonna happen. This game is pretty much exactly the same since the very first server. The only meaningful changes were tribe levels and relocating troops from different villas. Theres no such thing as a script detection program. You literally cant do it. The best tech against them are websites that show you say 9 pictures and ask you to select several pictures that include a certain thing like cars(a capcha). This helps but doesnt stop them. Facebook is worth 500 billion dollars and cant stop scripts(the Russian bots you hear about on the news). When someone tells you they detected a script they are lying. Scripts can get by anything including capchas. The fact that inno doesnt have captchas litterally proves they are guessing at players using scripts. The 10 players who were banned for scripting were all on the same world in the same tribe. Its foolish to think 100% of scripters all happen to play together. Furthermore you can see who was the first to 1mill RSS plundered on that world. It went Restinpeices(whom had his barbs catted down by biz right off the bat) myself, a teammate, and then slaughter. Assuming those 10 on my team were scripting 24hrs a day, You're telling me 8 of them got beat by multiple people who have to sleep, and they all got beat by restinpeices, all 10, even though his barbs were reduced to rubble. So what im saying is your game wasnt being made more fair. Nor will it be by making scripting illegal. Want it with all your heart, it ain't gonna happen. A lot of talk is saying coiners will get an even bigger advantage. So, buy coins. Cant afford it? Yes, you can. Go get a part time job at a local restaurant. Dont have the time? Yes you do, you just shaved 14 hours a week farming. Now you can focus on the actual skills of the game which are what make the game so enjoyable. Hypothetically
 

motown21

Swordsman
I like this suggestion. There are a lot of player who script farm already. i have confirmed this recently. they are rarely, if ever, banned. Adding some sort of simulator would even the playing field. or banning the scripters would be even better. someone mentioned earlier that farm scripting is far more valuable than crowns. that is 100% true. It makes it so free to play players can dominate and inno makes no money. There is a lot of different types of cheating that goes on and rarely is it acted on.