Question on Permanent Ban Policy

Discussion in 'Archive' started by craftscrazy, Mar 25, 2019.

  1. craftscrazy

    craftscrazy Archer

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    CaptC, you said you can discuss policies. The reasons you posted for giving a more severe punishment for botting than for other forms of cheating do not make any sense to me at all.

    3) Botting results in permanent removal from the world for a very very good reason: Botting provides permanent advantage to the cheater. Giving a player a short timeout, and then allowing them to continue to use that illegally gained advantage, is no punishment at all. It can be argued that such a policy would in fact be encouragement to cheat until caught, knowing there will be no effective sanction.

    6) Support does not recognize any requirement to warn cheaters. We do, often, wish to change behavior with short bans. However, as stated above, botting is a different offense, that conveys permanent advantage, which is not amenable to short "warnings".

    What forms of cheating don't provide a permanent advantage? If I make extra accounts and pump myself full of resources in the beginning to give myself a head start, that gives a permanent advantage. If I use my co-ops' troops to clear villages for myself and then take them, that also gives a permanent advantage. The punishment for these offenses is not a world ban for the first offense.

    A 3- to 5-day ban is no punishment at all? Really? Because most of the time, when you come back from a temporary ban, you are missing a few villages. If you are an active player and suddenly become inactive, the enemy notices and takes action. The resulting village and troop losses can be a huge setback, and the effects of this are also permanent.
     
  2. CaptC

    CaptC
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    It is mostly a matter of scale. Botting allows much greater advantage. Other forms of cheating are generally limited to human interaction speeds. That is a reason that posted game rules specify higher starting penalties for botting.
     
  3. cokky

    cokky Berserker

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    it still is rather random on the enforcement as there is about 10 people who have out farmed those you have banned for using the bot... kinda agree with mary there that it seems targeted you have to be better at how you enforce such things. You have given them way to much ammo to say your one sided in your enforcement. I have little doubt you seen evidence of cheating what i see is that you only looked in one place for such evidence thus it is biased in the enforcement not the cheating which is also cheating.
     
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  4. craftscrazy

    craftscrazy Archer

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    Breaches of this rule CAN result in a permanent ban of the World Account. Can, not will. Words matter. The way this is worded, I take it to mean that there are other, less severe penalties that might be applied before it gets to that point. Like maybe a shorter ban.
    1. Any use of automatization, scripts, bots or abuse of bugs is forbidden. Breaches of this rule can result in a permanent ban of the World Account and/or Master Account.
     
  5. CaptC

    CaptC
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    I cannot speak to why individuals were banned, Cokky. If you are aware of other botters, we will be happy to investigate any names you want to report. In tickets, please, this is not the place.

    I also cannot speak to severity of offense for any individuals, Craftscrazy, other than to say I believe we have applied an appropriate level of sanction for the offenses we discovered.
     
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  6. craftscrazy

    craftscrazy Archer

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    I am not referring to a specific individual. You stated in your own post on policy that botting results in a world ban, but the rules don't make it clear that a first offense results in a world ban. Maybe if it were clearer, fewer players would risk it.
     
  7. cokky

    cokky Berserker

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    I dont personally police the server it is not my place to turn people in for cheating i am just noticing how your investigation was flawed. It is perfectly possible that you took a look at only 12 people in one tribe and no one in any other tribe when it is obvious like i stated that the game gives you the tools to look at the totals with out mod tools so we can see who farmed what and when. You can also look at this (just a hint they are also the higher players on the server) You should have looked at that at least before dropping then hammer on one group. Then held off enforcement till you had concluded that they was the only parties in the wrong. Pretty obvious that is not the case. So now we have to look at intent where we should not have to ever look at such things as justice would have been broad based and unbiased. As is that is not the conclusion most people come to having all of the facts.
     
  8. hilda the mighty

    hilda the mighty Spearman

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    Botting results in permanent removal from the world for a very very good reason: Botting provides permanent advantage to the cheater. Giving a player a short timeout, and then allowing them to continue to use that illegally gained advantage, is no punishment at all. It can be argued that such a policy would in fact be encouragement to cheat until caught, knowing there will be no effective sanction.

    Food for thought: Ban crowner's. Having the $$$ to purchase crowns provides a permanent advantage to the purchaser and/or their tribe. Those that can not afford to purchase crowns are at a permanent disadvantage.
     
  9. cokky

    cokky Berserker

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    this is silly.... that is like banning those who have more time to play than others or some other socialist propaganda
     
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  10. EIJEFE

    EIJEFE Paladin

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    I would like to know if mod can see if players used a third party program or not in the past. Im sure this is not a secret
     
  11. CaptC

    CaptC
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    Cokky, I can only assure you that we looked far and wide. I am constrained from going into exact details. Just as I cannot mention individual bans, I cannot create a "seal of approval, guaranteed non-cheater" just because we did not detect an issue with specific other players.

    Crowners are by definition, legitimate and encouraged, Hilda. That's the business model, after all.
     
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  12. cokky

    cokky Berserker

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    common sense can see it is my point. pretty obvious you did not spend enough time on the investigating before the hammer dropped you would have caught more fish with a bigger net but once you splash the water they all scattered.
     
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  13. EIJEFE

    EIJEFE Paladin

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    At least he caught some fishes. was it the first perfect? no but at least he caught the majority ofthe cheaters. It wasnt a hit job.. thc was the only tribe caught by the ban because it was where the majority of the cheaters were. Im sure hes missing a few cheaters, but they didnt impact the game as much as thc did and they will not be scripting anymore. Its just unfortunate captc wasnt there earlier, because our last mod did nothing to punish the cheaters even though they were being called on the forum on week 1
     
  14. Daniel H

    Daniel H Spearman

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    @CaptC you still have never commented on sending support away from banned villages 24 hours after the initial ban and sanction. How exactly is that fair for the game when no one can support and defend villages. Assuming the game won't allow you to barb out or reset the villages in question, by continuing to recall troops to are giving the villages that have gained such an illegal advantage only to the players closest to them and leaving no opportunity to anyone outside of the immediate area a fair chance.
     
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  15. slydawgg

    slydawgg Axeman

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    There was no way prior to this for a 3rd party detection.
     
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  16. slydawgg

    slydawgg Axeman

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    Far and wide my ass. This is such bullshit.
     
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  17. Nick96

    Nick96 Spearman

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    Cry me a river
     
  18. slydawgg

    slydawgg Axeman

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    I will do that build a bridge and get the fuck over it too.

    But you see I'm not banned. I'm still alive and killing. So you just go back under the rock you came outta and everything will be all good
     
  19. Nick96

    Nick96 Spearman

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    Well aren't you just a big man you want a cookie for that achievement it must be hard for you to breath with your head so far up your ass
     
  20. slydawgg

    slydawgg Axeman

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    I like cookies, will you provide the milk too? Nope I can breathe just fine. I have a party going on up here too. Would you like to join when you bring the milk and cookies?
     

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